Nickel and Dime and the flow of Information (Subscription Concerns)

[Bansheedragon]

They pretty much broke every claim.

You really should do your research before you make such blatantly misinformed statements.

Seamless world? Nope.

Elaborate.
What do you define as seamless?

Newtonian physics? Nope.

And when did they break this promise?
Have you seen the finished game maybe?

Treating pledgers like investors? Nope.

And what do you base this claim on?
What is it that makes you think they do not treat us as investors?
So you mean that they have to tell us every line of code they write, everything they discuss, every idea they come up with?

[NetAndy]

I wonder if non subscribers know how exclusive content we have gotten today... I mean the Idris stats, video of Retalliator, images of Starfarer and alpha version of garage app with Constellation and Hornet. Also Jumppoint #2 looks great I never though they will be able to make issue with 42 pages
And we were promised the new forum to discuss all those things without the whinning of lesser folk.
It is not like we received twelve seconds of videos and dozen images.

EDIT: CRs response to subscriptions: http://www.robertsspaceindustries.co...ll=1#post51688

[Hermit]

Oh sorry, I thought EN4CER was making a post based on information that he'd read. I didn't realise that he doesn't know what the hell he's talking about!

[radd]

I wonder if non subscribers know how exclusive content we have gotten today... I mean the Idris stats, video of Retalliator, images of Starfarer and alpha version of garage app with Constellation and Hornet. Also Jumppoint #2 looks great I never though they will be able to make issue with 42 pages
And we were promised the new forum to discuss all those things without the whinning of lesser folk.
It is not like we received twelve seconds of videos and dozen images.

On,y 42 pages? They must have cut it down for the Centurion subscribers.

[croberts68]

@OP/TraneGibson -

I'm sorry that you feel this way but I think you're misunderstanding a fundamental part of why we created a "Development Subscription".

During the campaign we had many, many backers say that they wanted to support the game on an ongoing basis to make a better game, and a better experience for the community. A lot of people said they would love a subscription, as while they couldn't back Star Citizen during the initial campaign for a larger amount they would be happy to give $10 or $20 a month during development towards the cause. This kind of enthusiasm and willingness to help bowled us over and like we've tried to throughout the campaign we wanted to respond to the community's wishes. An additional source of funds during development was attractive as it would allow us to hire more people to create even more content for the game, as well as serve the community on an ongoing basis. We asked everyone what they would want in return for giving an extra amount every month and the response was they didn't need something special or extra in game as they though that would be unfair, but would like to get some extra behind the scenes information or development information that perhaps wouldn't normally be available if we didn't have the extra re-occurring revenue.

That's why we created the Centurion and Imperator subscriptions, and why we focused on benefits that were about more detailed information and extra access that we would not normally be able to provide. The funds from the subscription has allowed us to hire people to specifically curate and deliver content to the community.

Without the money from subscriptions we could not afford to do half the stuff we're planning to do, and that includes a lot of "free" content we're giving backers even if they don't have a subscription. Beyond this as the subscription revenue grows it will allow us to hire extra designers artists and so on to create more content for day 1 in the game, which benefits all backers. Because of this you cant compare a "Development Subscription" to a magazine one. For a start we don't have any advertising revenue to support our costs (I think people would not be happy if we started pimping out RSI with Google ads, or forcing you to watch an ad before you could watch a video embedded on our site like most web gaming sites). You get more than just a digital magazine, and you're also supporting the costs of sharing the information on a daily basis with EVERYONE in the community and helping finance extra in game content.

I would hope non subscribers would be happy that there are people that are willing to contribute some extra money each month, as its making the experience better for everyone. And for that is it really fair to begrudge a subscriber a little more in depth window into the development process or some subscriber only content for their monthly contribution? Its all content that we wouldn't have the time or resources to create or share in the first place.

If you compare what we're doing on RSI for the whole community - daily updates, frequent drops of work in progress - its much more than any other crowd funded, hell ANY game out there. None of the other big Kickstarter games are doing as much as we are. I maybe get a project update once a month if I'm lucky on most of the projects I've backed. I think I've only had three updates on Wasteland 2 since funding closed. Double Fine are doing a nice job with their documentary but its monthly and 25% of their initial ask was to fund this. This is because constantly sharing information and presenting properly takes time and costs money.

I'm not satisfied with where we are at now - I'm planning on ramping up our community and subscriber information flow even further, specifically with more video content, but to do this we need subscriptions as we cant take away from the funds (and resources) dedicated to actually making Star Citizen.

So don't think of it as being "nickle and dimed" for information, think of it as having the ability to access some information you may never have been privvy to, and if you don't want to subscribe, it's still cool as you're going to get nicely presented behind the scenes material a little later on that would have never seen if it weren't for the "Development Subscription" revenue.

-Chris

[Toast]

[I'm speaking as a community member in this response, not as a moderator. I'm a volunteer moderator and am not actually employed by RSI.]

Please, easy with the class war stuff, people.

- even if you disagree with RSI, it's not your fellow pledgers' fault. They didn't make the policy.
- fracturing or nurturing the community is our choice, both collectively and as individuals. You may feel slighted, but if you choose to drive a wedge between yourself and other pledgers, you're inflicting damage that did not have to happen.

You don't have to agree with all of CIG/RSI's business decisions on pricing and pledge options, but please don't start attacking your fellow pledgers on the basis of when or how much or how little they pledged. You can be upset with CIG/RSI if you want, but projecting your anger onto your fellow pledgers harms the community and accomplishes little if anything else.

[radd]

Chris has just posted his response on subscriptions in the Nickel and Dime thread here: http://www.robertsspaceindustries.co...ormation/page4

[radd]

Thank you for your detailed explanation and clarification Chris!

[yumcimil]

I think the big thing for me, is that after spending $250 for a game that's due to be released in 2 years, I assumed that I was *already* considered a subscriber. I was genuinely surprised when logging in didn't actually grant me access.

I'm not getting out the pitchforks and torches, but it's reasonable to say "Hey, this wasn't the most positive move". It's probably not helped by the natural slowdown of information immediately after the initial drive, combined with the Christmas/New Year break.

I do appreciate croberts68 taking the time to actually address our concerns. It's nice to know it's not just an EA-style imposed rule that's not up for discussion.

[giantsnark]

That's a really well-written response, and just an hour after the original post. Wow.

[Hermit]

I still don't like the idea of subscribers being given their own little exclusive forum, though. That does encourage elitism, regardless of how Toast keeps banging on about avoiding class wars on the forum

And I'm sure there are other ways of gaining a steady revenue stream in the way you describe. Denying content to most (even for a short period) tends to leave people cold.

[NetAndy]

I think the big thing for me, is that after spending $250 for a game that's due to be released in 2 years, I assumed that I was *already* considered a subscriber. I was genuinely surprised when logging in didn't actually grant me access.

I'm not getting out the pitchforks and torches, but it's reasonable to say "Hey, this wasn't the most positive move". It's probably not helped by the natural slowdown of information immediately after the initial drive, combined with the Christmas/New Year break.

I do appreciate croberts68 taking the time to actually address our concerns. It's nice to know it's not just an EA-style imposed rule that's not up for discussion.

There were (and still are) so many issues, however I have to give them credit for making things better, they are listening to the community and responding to us quite well, it takes them little longer sometimes
I would also like to thank Chris for the response and clarification, even though I wish he would not have to respond in this thread where is the worst of our community, I would rather see him responding in some of the excellent threads in the Game Ideas. Nevertheless such answers are probably needed in these threads more to end the conflict without closing the thread.

[TraneGibson]

@radd
Thank you for your follow-up and thought out responses. I will re-read your link in full. I think we're all on the same page with wanting a great game.

@lonestar1771
I couldn't have responded better, honestly. And thank you for adding to the discussion.

@ChaosGryphon
I don't begrudge anyone for wanting to pay more, if they can afford it and they can pay for it, more power to them. I just don't want to see the people who have pledged get taken by the short hairs because they chose to or can't afford to continually put down more.

@Azan27
Well put and I will take much of what you said away with me. Sometimes no matter how many times you hear something, you need to hear it a couple of more times.

BTW, I am responding to these page by page. This is the 2nd page responses, I feel quotes would make my entry too long considering some of the wall of text.

[Paradox2063]

I'd like to support development of SC but I can't afford to drop 200 dollars on a whim. But I could spend 20 dollars a month for a year.

[giantsnark]

I still don't like the idea of subscribers being given their own little exclusive forum, though. That does encourage elitism, regardless of how Toast keeps banging on about avoiding class wars on the forum

Wait, what? What subscriber-only forum? I just went and looked around, including checking the information describing the subscriptions, and I can't find anything about a subscriber-only forum.